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Post by btinsc on Nov 27, 2023 10:25:30 GMT -5
Hello guys.. FIRST.... to save any responders time please do not recommend changing the starting system to another style, I am keeping this Jeep as close to original as i can. It is a 1952 CJ3A with an AutoLite MZ-4162 starter.
While in camp last week the starter failed to engage. I have replaced the starter rod block which attaches to the firewall so the rod contacts the lever correctly.
What happens is nothing. First thought was dead battery, battery charge good. Turned on the headlights and engaged foot starter to check for a heavy discharge, lights did not even flicker. Checked push rod action, lever hits switch squarely and switch appears to depress normally. Battery cable connection is clean and tight. Removed switch to check contacts and found no issues there, contacts clean and no pitting or signs of arcing present. Using battery disconnect switch connected battery cable to starter, closed switch and motor spun, next engaged bendix and closed switch and starter spun engine. Reinstalled everything and starter worked as normal.
No other failures for rest of trip. I figure it will fail again when between a rock and a hard place. What would you experienced fellows check next? Could there be a mechanical obstruction preventing the bendix from fully engaging thus preventing the contacts from closing? Or some sort of internal electrical issues? Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks.
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Lee
Full Professor
Vagabond Jeeper
Posts: 705
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Post by Lee on Nov 27, 2023 18:07:01 GMT -5
So does he motor run and it does not engage, or nothing at all happens ?…. I y have one or two of these starters I’d give you a smoking deal on if your s not repairable.
Lee😂
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Post by btinsc on Nov 27, 2023 20:28:29 GMT -5
Lee when it would not start nothing happened. Just what you would expect when the voltage was not supplied to the motor windings. After removing the switch from the motor I applied power to the motor terminal and the motor ran, then I pulled the bendix lever allowing the bendix to engage the flywheel, applied power to the starter motor and the starter motor spun the engine engine as normal. I found nothing wrong and it hasn’t failed in a number of starts. Tomorrow I’m going to our generator/starter house and talk with those gray-haired boys and try to pick their brains. I know if left alone it will come back and bite me in the ass. I do have a parts starter but I will surely remember your offer. Thanks. Bill
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Post by rickg on Nov 27, 2023 20:37:39 GMT -5
Tomorrow I’m going to our generator/starter house and talk with those gray-haired boys and try to pick their brains. Bill There ya go! I am fortunate to have an old school auto elect shop nearby. More and more lately they are specializing in the modern stuff to stay in biz but a few years back i walked in with some 24v M38 stuff and Jeff knew exactly what i had. Still in biz and Jeff mentors the younger techs mixing old and new school.
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Post by btinsc on Nov 27, 2023 21:39:18 GMT -5
Thanks rickg .... I’ll let you know what they say.
on edit-
Stopped by the shop this morning. It’s a three man operation and they were so busy I didn’t stop. They are really good to talk with you but I didn’t want to cut in on a busy morning. Will check with them later. I did find some good info on an Electric Auto-Lite page. Along with a very detailed explanation of the workings of the Auto-Lite starters I found my starter is not a bendix type but an overrunnng clutch type. And that by turning the switch cap ( where the lever presses ) the gap between the cap and the lever is set. But the recommended gap was not given.
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oilleaker1
Full Professor
Full Professor
Has Jeep Disease
Posts: 2,022
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Post by oilleaker1 on Dec 4, 2023 9:33:55 GMT -5
I think the switch on top of the starter has a adjustment that turns the motor on when the bendix fully engaged the flywheel starter ring gear.
M38 24 volt type also.
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Post by brucew on Dec 4, 2023 11:50:43 GMT -5
Not all starter drive units are Bendix. “BENDIX” is a brand name, the name of a company that made starter drive units as well as brakes and a lot of other automotive components. There are other drive’s made by other manufacturers that work differently. “Bendix” has become a generic term I guess, kind of like Kleenex, Band-Aid, and Jello. BW
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Post by btinsc on Dec 5, 2023 9:33:14 GMT -5
Oilleaker1 after doing a little research I learned how the starter works. It’s kind of a two stage operation. First stage is the starters pinion gear being pressed into the flywheel. Second stage is when the starter rod is further pressed the starter motor contacts are closed thus starting the motor.. The switch is adjustable. By turning the switches cap the length of the “push” can be adjusted.. I have not changed the setting on my switch. There is a small amount of slop in the connection where the foot starter attaches to the starter motor. Perhaps the rod was to one side of the cap and was not fully engaging the switch. Bruce thanks for clearing up my misconceptions. I know what you’re talking about because in my trade all refrigerators were called Frigidaire’s and all refrigerants were called Freon.
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