So frustrating……Timing Issues

hopps1945
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Posts: 17

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 10, 2016 21:25:20 GMT -5

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Post by hopps1945 on Aug 10, 2016 21:25:20 GMT -5

A little background. Motor is a new rebuild. I had the block all checked, cylinders bored, and the whole valve training installed by the motor guy. I did the rest. Carb is a new rebuilt by a local 'reputable' shop. New reproduction fuel pump. Happen to install the fly wheel 180 off during the install....

Got it running initially but couldn't get it to idle.

Found this site recently and finally spent the last few days trying to get it nailed down by following all the wonderful instructions on here.

First I tried this:

oldjeepcarbs.freeforums.net/thread/29/time-motor-timing-light

Couldn't come close. Lucky to get to 15 on the vacuum gauge and RPMs still way too high (1600ish).

Tonight I figured I would start from zero.

Followed these instructions:

www.thecj2apage.com/forums/l134-ignition-timing_topic13819.html

Downloaded the 17 page article and followed it all to a T. Just like it was a first time start up.

Tried again. Followed the info posted by Scoutpilot in the first link. warmed up, running like a banchee, adjust the distributor to get the highest reading (about 18ish) drop 100 RPM and moved to the carb. can't get it to go up anymore on the vacuum gauge as I bring the idle down. Adjust the mixture and I can get the RPMS around 1,000 but I'm below 15 on the vacuum gauge and running like shit. Here is a little video to show: (Sorry the video quality is crap. First time doing this and the setting were too low I guess.)

So is my valve adjustments not good? There were too tight when I first put the motor in. Never adjusted valves before to I may have been a little sloppy in getting the gap right. Getting this jeep running has been hell for me. Been problem after problem. For those that may have seen my build thread on the G503 forum, you can see why I have no hair left.....

This is my first vehicle restoration. It has been a blast but all this motor stuff, i.e. timing, carb operation is above my pay grade.

So, what do all you have to say?

Thanks for the assistance!

Nick
1945 MB 425051

hopps1945 Full Member Posts: 17	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 10, 2016 21:26:52 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by hopps1945 on Aug 10, 2016 21:26:52 GMT -5 After watching the video, it is hard to hear the rough idle, but can see the gauge bounce.
	Nick 1945 MB 425051

hopps1945
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Posts: 17

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 10, 2016 21:40:30 GMT -5

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Post by hopps1945 on Aug 10, 2016 21:40:30 GMT -5

After reading some posts on this forum I forgot to add something to my narrative. I had to replace he throttle shaft because the linkage was not secured well to it allowing the linkage to move on the shaft and kept screwing with the idle. So the current shaft is out of an old carb. Sadly I damage the new shaft in an 'accident' in my garage... (Don't ask...) So maybe I have a vacuum leak. My little propane torch is out of fuel so I can't check for a leak at the moment.

Nick
1945 MB 425051

Scoutpilot
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Posts: 2,727

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 11, 2016 3:55:01 GMT -5

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Post by Scoutpilot on Aug 11, 2016 3:55:01 GMT -5

The low vacuum reading and high RPM would indicate a throttle vacuum leak. I couldn’t tell if or how much choke was applied but with the first two indicators, if you do need choke to idle then yes, there is a vacuum leak. Is there a new diffuser gasket with copper rings underneath the carb? If so, the copper rings need to be crushed flat. The carb stud nuts need to be tightened to 30-33 Lb Ft of torque to accomplish this. Other than that I can suggest you pull the throttle shaft back out and measure it’s diameter at both points where it passes through the carb. A serviceable shaft will be no less than .310” OD at both locations. The, if you can measure the bores in the throttle base where the shaft passes through. They should be no more than .3125” ID. Both wear into an ‘egg’ shape and a gap of .005” will leak air into the carb. If worn to or beyond these specs, you need bushings and possibly a new shaft.

Old fashioned service never goes out of style.

“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.”

― Benjamin Franklin

Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 11, 2016 6:31:12 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 6:31:12 GMT -5 X2! also, if your valves are slightly loose, no worries as its better than being to tight.... The old timers used to say, " if you can hear'em clicking there not burning". Reset them later! Lee

Mashie Niblick KJRT Resident Pro Posts: 223	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 11, 2016 6:41:13 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Mashie Niblick on Aug 11, 2016 6:41:13 GMT -5 Would or could an air leak at intake manifold contribute, too? ...either between the two manifolds or at the surface against the engine?

hopps1945
Full Member

Posts: 17

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 11, 2016 7:09:01 GMT -5

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Post by hopps1945 on Aug 11, 2016 7:09:01 GMT -5

Aug 11, 2016 3:55:01 GMT -5 Scoutpilot said:

The low vacuum reading and high RPM would indicate a throttle vacuum leak. I couldn’t tell if or how much choke was applied but with the first two indicators, if you do need choke to idle then yes, there is a vacuum leak.

No choke in the video but if I apply a bit of it, it will smooth out.

Nick
1945 MB 425051

oilleaker1
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Full Professor

Has Jeep Disease

Posts: 2,022

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 11, 2016 7:18:10 GMT -5

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Post by oilleaker1 on Aug 11, 2016 7:18:10 GMT -5

Listen carefully to Scout Pilot and me. I had exactly the same problem with my GPW. After exhausting all other items in the list I gave you, I told Scout the carb he fixed still wasn't right. He said send it back. Scout does know what he is doing. He proved it to me and is a stand behind his work guy. A+++++ to you Scout. The throttle shaft on the inside of the venturi was leaking past the closed butterfly and would not allow a correct idle mixture. Once the shaft was done right, it runs better than all my other Jeeps. Just drove 544 miles of trails in canada with it. Never touched the carb. Always started immediately and ran like a Westclox Alarm clock. My symptom with the bad shaft was: I could back the throttle speed stop screw clear off the stop and when adjusting the mixture screw for the best idle, it ran about 900 RPM's which is way too fast for going down hills while Jeeping or at a stop sign etc. I think you have the same issue after reading your last post. Oilly

hopps1945 Full Member Posts: 17	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 11, 2016 8:17:40 GMT -5 via mobile Mashie Niblick likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by hopps1945 on Aug 11, 2016 8:17:40 GMT -5 Thanks guys for all the help so far. I'll do some more checking tonight and see what I can find. Will keep you posted.
	Nick 1945 MB 425051

Mashie Niblick KJRT Resident Pro Posts: 223	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 13, 2016 19:47:49 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Mashie Niblick on Aug 13, 2016 19:47:49 GMT -5 Hopps...have you had a chance to play with it?
	Last Edit: Aug 13, 2016 19:48:02 GMT -5 by Mashie Niblick

hopps1945
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Posts: 17

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 14, 2016 10:47:18 GMT -5

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Post by hopps1945 on Aug 14, 2016 10:47:18 GMT -5

Hey guys. Sadly been a busy week. I adjusted the valves but didn't get a chance to check the carb yet. I'm will be out of town for the next week. When I get back I'll check my throttle linkage and will probably have to send it to Scoutpilot for work.

Nick
1945 MB 425051

Scoutpilot Administrator Posts: 2,727	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 14, 2016 11:40:56 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Scoutpilot on Aug 14, 2016 11:40:56 GMT -5 Don’t give up yet hopps.
	Old fashioned service never goes out of style. “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” ― Benjamin Franklin

hopps1945
Full Member

Posts: 17

So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 27, 2016 23:30:01 GMT -5 jeffwho likes this

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Post by hopps1945 on Aug 27, 2016 23:30:01 GMT -5

Just a quick heads up. Haven't forgotten this thread. Vacation is over, the build up to and completion of the wife's graduation from University of Washington's P.A. program is done so life should be returning to normal (I hope). Getting ready to give this a try again but had a little set back as the repair I made to the radiator didn't work so have to swap it out before I can give it a go again. I'll let you guys know how it goes once I get a chance to try again.

Nick
1945 MB 425051

Scoutpilot Administrator Posts: 2,727	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 28, 2016 5:27:21 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Scoutpilot on Aug 28, 2016 5:27:21 GMT -5 Life does get in the way but that’s all right. We haven’t given up on you or your efforts.
	Old fashioned service never goes out of style. “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” ― Benjamin Franklin

rickg Global Moderator Full Professor Posts: 1,957	So frustrating……Timing Issues Aug 28, 2016 10:08:58 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by rickg on Aug 28, 2016 10:08:58 GMT -5 Nick, congrats to the new grad and keep us posted on your progress.
	OD MULE MC51986 DOD 01-52 Big Red 19fiddy 3A salad Ain't nothin like drivin an old jeep across new country.