Lee
Full Professor
Vagabond Jeeper
Posts: 704
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Post by Lee on Sept 7, 2023 11:23:51 GMT -5
Jeff, perhaps it’s time to beg the wife permission to purchase a NEW gear☝️ remove all doubt about the timing 😉 So crack open that mason jar of conformation money and order one up 😂🥓🥓🥓🥓🥓
Lee😉
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Post by brucew on Sept 7, 2023 13:49:16 GMT -5
Draw a line on the gear from the center of the retainer bolt hole, through the center of the keyway, to the outside of the gear. The line will intersect a gear tooth. Calling that tooth “zero”, count clockwise 14 teeth. That 14th tooth should have the mark on it. Running your line all the way across, tooth to tooth, through the center and the keyway, might help you find center.
BW
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Post by jeffwho on Sept 7, 2023 15:30:51 GMT -5
I'm not much of one! It was "label" side out when I removed it, but I don't think the gear teeth would mesh properly if installed backward.
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Post by jeffwho on Sept 7, 2023 16:31:19 GMT -5
I found this old post on the CJ forum: "If the flywheel is installed 180* incorrectly, you can set the timing on #2 or #3 cylinder." (by none other than Bruce W)
This is also part of the conundrum because I'm so fixated on setting #1 because all the manuals and "rules" say this. I have determined that this one is on 180* incorrectly.
Additionally, if I buy a new fibre gear it won't have a mark and even if it does, the HOW in lining that new gear up would be the same as dorking about with this one.
I can try Bruce's magic middle trick - remember, that fibre gear is NOT installed so there is still a little guessing .. at least I have the woodruff keys.
Remember, I really am this new at putting things together! I can rip em down easy, got that part sorted!
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST ..
I did take some notes as I was spinning the flywheel and the cam, watching the valves and trying to get this right. I think I am there, really, I even gots pictures and I think I understand it.
Now - I've just got to find my notebook.
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Post by Scoutpilot on Sept 7, 2023 18:24:08 GMT -5
We are all here for you brother!
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Lee
Full Professor
Vagabond Jeeper
Posts: 704
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Post by Lee on Sept 7, 2023 20:57:25 GMT -5
So it sounds like you need to remove the flywheel and get it in the correct spot before you do anything☝️🥓🥓🥓🌽
Lee😉
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oilleaker1
Full Professor
Full Professor
Has Jeep Disease
Posts: 2,022
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Post by oilleaker1 on Sept 8, 2023 4:59:38 GMT -5
Keyless guy here Jeffy. Bruce's tooth count is what I was going to tell you to do. My engine had a DPO cam and gear in it that "looked good" So I put it back in the engine I built. Low and behold, no power. BW said sitting next to me in my Jeep, out on the trails, "sure sounds retarded in timing to me". I read the manual's instructions on checking valve timing and compared mine to the spec. Sure enough, late valve timing. The timing marks were spot on. So, ordered a new cam, pulled the engine back out and tore it down. I had already re-touched up the valve seats since my compression readings were low. New rings and re-honed the cylinders. Decided to pull the cam gear off and put it on the new cam. As I did this, I noticed the half moon key was gone. Must have fallen on the floor. Nope, it was never installed by the previous dumb owner. Duh, .59 cent key and 500.00 dollars later, I realized the fiber gear had shifted on the cam. When the bolt and wide washer are installed, you can not see/notice the key isn't there. I took a licking but now am ticking-------with normal power and compression.
The cam gears either had a faint oblong "O" or a drilled spot or depression. That oblong O is hard to see. Hence do the tooth count provided by BW and look close for the O.
I would do as Lee suggested and if needed, change the flywheel. Then spend some time with the oil pump install to get the correct offset position in the oil pump drive gear so your distributor offset is also correct. This will position the distributor oiler port so it gravity feeds the brass bushing with oil when squirted in the oiler hole, and allow timing rotation setting of the distributor.
The oil pump drive gear, and camshaft gear teeth are spiral cut. When you install the oil pump , keep it straight going up and down with the mounting bolts. it will turn as you slide it up in there. If it positions the offset in the wrong spot, pull it back down and rotate the pump and change it a tooth or two until it stops in the correct orientaton. You do this while the engine is parked with number one at the "ign" mark in the timing hole. The manual has a picture in it that shows what the offset looks like down the distributor hole. I take a red grease pencil and mark the oil pump gear and oil pump body so I can reference things. It's really stupid simple. Even I can do this-------keyless in SD.
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Post by jeffwho on Sept 11, 2023 6:45:00 GMT -5
Made some good progress at the weekend, front side of this motor is all buttoned up. Thankfully my buddy Max who's restoring a 66 Mustang in this communal garage sensed my frustration (as in kept me from launching tools into the woods) and made me a little less dumb. Thinking about it overnight, it's too embarrassing to share but there is good news. I did find a small etched line after cleaning the fool off the cam gear -full of crud- but not a 0 like on the crank gear. It aligns perfectly with that mark when #1 TDC though I still do have to flip the flywheel. The motor is on a borrowed stand from the guy I bought it from, so I have to wrestle with it on a hoist AFTER I replace the mounting bolts. When I rolled the motor over it damn near fell off the stand. I tell ya - never a dull moment. I should stick to stripping them down and let the able and bright ones rebuild 'em.
I hope yous guys all have a great week jeepin - I'm not quite there yet.
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oilleaker1
Full Professor
Full Professor
Has Jeep Disease
Posts: 2,022
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Post by oilleaker1 on Sept 11, 2023 16:13:53 GMT -5
This cam gear mark aligns with the crankshaft O when both the #1 valves are shut and have .015 in. tappet clearance? Engine at TDC on #1 and timing mark on the flywheel is located in the round hole after flipping the flywheel? Is your cam gear a aftermarket new gear? Reason I ask is I've looked at all mine, and they are either marked oblong O or a drilled dot. Oilly
Someone could have marked the gear that way too. Did you do the tooth count also?
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Post by fred46 on Sept 16, 2023 21:51:46 GMT -5
No.
The teeth are helical cut and wouldn’t mesh with the crankshaft gear.
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